What a wild article. It's like every nasty stereotype about Southern people refracted through an PUA/incel lens. It's clear you have never even been to the South (that you group in a Texan city with "SEC Country" is telling - Texas is its own thing culturally). The SEC Couple meme is just pointing out that a particular kind of pudgy, rich white kid still gets laid in college from some combination of being rich and funny. You know that type immediately if you walk around a campus like Bama for like 15 minutes. It is, as the youths say, not that deep. No adult woman in Dallas or Atlanta has ever or will ever turn a guy down because he wasn't in the right frat ten years ago; nor is anybody in the right frat "mate guarding" at bars and jumping you for talking to a girl. Good frats are good partially because girls like them - and girls don't like guys who beat people up for talking to them!
People from "SEC Country" do not view college as the last chance to live life, unless you think getting married means you no longer live life? Nor does Greek Life really mean much for getting a job. If you're lucky you might get some proximate benefits if you're super close with the child of somebody influential, but that's exceptionally rare even if you assume you're at an extremely hard to get into frat that enforces every member is well heeled. Would you hand out jobs to your son's dumbass frat brothers? Probably not, unless you came to know that person very well, which is not common. The only job benefit that frat affiliation will get you is that *maybe* it pushes the needle to get an interview if the hiring manager was on the fence about talking to you.
It is kinda funny because like 10-20% of it is negative stereotypes about the south. Then the rest of it is just explaining how dating within a functional community works/worked to young chronically online people who have only ever experienced the isolated 21st century urban decay. It’s honestly kinda sad that functioning community has become so foreign to people.
I graduated from an SEC school in December and agree with you. Most people in Greek life date other people in Greek life simply because they run in the same circles, but there are still couples where only one member is in a frat or sorority. This is especially pronounced because there are many more women in sororities than guys in frats at my school. Additionally, the only engaged or married people I know are very religious and usually not part of the Greek party culture. Overall, people at my school were pretty normal. I think the social dynamics illustrated in this article may be more prominent at private schools in the South.
1. I actually grew up in the South and even lived in Atlanta itself for a couple of years so I saw these politics play out time and time again. Mind you, there are bars in Buckhead where the manager will not hire you as a bartender if you didn't go to an SEC school.
2. Yes but the pudgy guy would be invisible or get no play in a major city. A lot of times, he is being assisted by his Greek Letters.
3. If you go for Southern Belles in Atlanta or Dallas, yes, you will be turned down if you were not a part of their tribe. It is just how it works. Try talking to some girls in a college town at fratty bars, you will get into actual fights for this.
4. Getting married is living a different life but yeah, it is the end of the fun party life no doubt. People down south get married sooner.
5. Alumni that come from certain frats hire college students from said frats. Some of the nepotism is bad.
How long ago did you live in Atlanta? I would have said this was accurate 10-15 years ago. Now it’s very out of date (down to the Buckhead reference, which is no longer a bar district).
I’m not sure when you were last there, but the Buckhead bar area was literally leveled and replaced with a luxury shopping development maybe ten years ago. So there is no scene unless you count rich moms hosting baby showers at Le Biilboquet.
Friend, Virginia-Highland has been a neighborhood for rich but liberal law firm partners for 15 years. I have to ask again when you actually lived here because your impressions and references are…not current.
Very weird article. Good looking women are only in sororities? Huh. I did not know that. It might very well be frat boys marry sorority girls more often than chance. But this is a small part of humanity.
This explains an absolute ton to me. I mean I suspected a lot of this but this helps tie it together. My family background is from thus culture but as a military brat I grew up outside it. When I went to college, even joining the most borderline fraternity on campus late because a friend sold me on it, (the Greek Council would no joke forget to invite us to meetings because they forgot we were there), made a massive difference in my ability to meet women and my social life in general.
Even before college as well as during, most, though not all, of my social and dating success was outside these circles, transplants from Not-The-South and foreigners, even when foreign just meant Canadian.
Same here, I joined a mid-tier fraternity which was not an option for most guys who are not White. It was an above average house. My social life really took off as a result.
This resonates. I’m from the North. Went to an Alabama-Ole Miss game in 2015. Got sucker-punched outside the Innisfree Irish Pub in Tuscaloosa in the early morning hours of September 19th. Fell on the back of my head on concrete and left for dead. Suffered a subdural hematoma. Hospitalized for a month. Innisfree claimed its cameras showed nothing. I’ve always assumed I chatted up some undergrad at the bar and somebody took my number. I’m fully recovered. And glad as hell I’m not married to a southern belle.
WHOA what the heck man, I hope you are okay now and I am glad you survived. Yes, be quite careful around SEC fans for schools with low admission standards. A lot of them are just drunk violent people who will attack. LSU and Alabama produce the worst. Thank God the Tide are now washed up.
I lived in Birmingham and I totally agree - do not even try to break into a profession or professional circles there, you cannot do it, and it will eat years of your life. However, I'm from Dallas and outside of the SMU/Highland Park silliness bubble I do not think the city is that way overall!
I had the same exact experience growing up in the south myself. If you are not in it from birth, forget it. I think Dallas may be changing these days though. I hear the city is getting quite diverse these days.
Yeah, I think that's the difference between Dallas and an insular southeastern city like Birmingham; Dallas' population has been booming since the 70s, whereas no one (at least no one with any sense, which excludes me) moves to the 'Ham. There are so many different Dallases and a lot of ways to make bank, Birmingham has few industries and reserves entry level positions in biglaw and banking for her own sons.
I am curious to learn more about Dallas. I have heard that it can be cliquey but I am going to check it out at some point for a week and give my report.
Interesting makes sense, I suspect this was how most of life was maybe a hundred years ago. It’s why PUA etc weren’t all that popular then, cause it didn’t matter, you wouldn’t get that girl anyway.
It’s not entirely wrong. It’s just a youngish millennial from an urban area with zero community that destroys social ties and breeds isolationism struggling to understand community and social ties.
Physical beauty or handsomeness is entirely overrated. Love someone who you can spend time with…alone…no internet or distractions. Remember; people have disfiguring accidents every day. Better hope your love is stronger than chiseled abs or D-cups*.
*Breast cancer is horrible. Do you really want a partner who abandons you when you need them?
100%. Went to school in the South and as an outsider I found it baffling. But it does allow the upper levels of society to preserve their power - and keep the carpetbaggers out.
Yeah but at the same time, the world is changing and that lifestyle is not compatible with it. Women will realize they can do a lot better and act accordingly.
Exactly! Truth is it’s a very old school European attitude - where family ties are more important than merit. The US outperformed Europe for 200 years by emphasizing merit over family.
Yeah and now, slowly, American and foreign men will start to outperform Europe in dating. Will not be shocked if Western Europe ends up being a Passport Bro destination in the future.
Not just the SEC. You have described the social scene at most large state universities in the Midwest as well, though the post-college effects are probably not as stultifying as they are in the South.
Can confirm as someone from the south that went to a BIG10 school and always felt welcomed even within the deep midwestern suburb ties. I had a cousin who went from the north to a southern school and had a hard time getting into frats since most bids are based on connections and given out before the school year even started.
Funny how outsiders always want in and screaming if they don’t get it. Seems like people from broke communities would be best placed to crest their own instead.
We have no frats in Australia but the further you from larger urban areas the more ugly man / hot woman pairings seem to occur. Its definitely impacted by population density and economics
it strikes me that modern urban core norms around courtship and dating are anomalous to how human beings operate and what you’re describing is much closer to how its literally been for all of human history. in the anonymity of a metropolis, externally verifiable things carry much more weight (looks, job, etc). its hard to forget that this is not the default, because the internet has created a dispersed metropolis that allows people to exist within its framework as opposed to the physical reality of their actual surroundings and the accompanying norms and social structures that you’d have to adhere to (i.e. the alt girl who lives in shreveport louisiana who has a bunch of friends on a discord server and is an outsider at school). good article though i enjoyed reading and look forward to reading your other work
I appreciate the kind words. I think it is just that the urban centers you speak of are predicting the future and marching along that tune with dating. Meanwhile, the SEC Couples meme is a remnant of the past that may soon be gone.
Just because humans operated in a certain way, does not mean they will operate that way forever.
Cheering the destruction of a community isn’t something to cheer about.
Thrusting everyone into chasing the best looking Richest men for the hottest women will not be some dating utopia. Everyone hates NYC dating. It’s so materialistic and difficult with everyone seeking the next best thing.
I don’t like SEC frats driving hiring but is it so different from Ivy hiring?
The hot babe “marrying down” sounds like envy, like the Chads are mad that theStacey’s aren’t choosing them. BThere’s something to be said about marrying within a community that shares your values, upbringing, culture and mores. If anything, we should be encouraging more of these community based dating and marriage models.
The SEC reminds me of ethnic models. and religious based dating. People find them offensive and exclusive but every single model. Is exclusive, absent forced random marriages.
people like to think that bartending is a job anyone can get but this is really not the case in certain areas, especially if you're a guy because most bar patrons are male and they prefer to look at female bartenders. so you REALLY have to know somebody to even be considered and even then, you have to barback and bus for months on end, waiting for your shot to step behind the bar when one of the regulars finally calls in "sick" on a Monday night because they spent all weekend snorting coke and drinking and they're half dead. it's insanely clique-y. they like to make it difficult to make up for the fact that it's a job that most people can do well with very little training.
the rest of this article was news to me. very interesting stuff. kinda depressing.
What a wild article. It's like every nasty stereotype about Southern people refracted through an PUA/incel lens. It's clear you have never even been to the South (that you group in a Texan city with "SEC Country" is telling - Texas is its own thing culturally). The SEC Couple meme is just pointing out that a particular kind of pudgy, rich white kid still gets laid in college from some combination of being rich and funny. You know that type immediately if you walk around a campus like Bama for like 15 minutes. It is, as the youths say, not that deep. No adult woman in Dallas or Atlanta has ever or will ever turn a guy down because he wasn't in the right frat ten years ago; nor is anybody in the right frat "mate guarding" at bars and jumping you for talking to a girl. Good frats are good partially because girls like them - and girls don't like guys who beat people up for talking to them!
People from "SEC Country" do not view college as the last chance to live life, unless you think getting married means you no longer live life? Nor does Greek Life really mean much for getting a job. If you're lucky you might get some proximate benefits if you're super close with the child of somebody influential, but that's exceptionally rare even if you assume you're at an extremely hard to get into frat that enforces every member is well heeled. Would you hand out jobs to your son's dumbass frat brothers? Probably not, unless you came to know that person very well, which is not common. The only job benefit that frat affiliation will get you is that *maybe* it pushes the needle to get an interview if the hiring manager was on the fence about talking to you.
It is kinda funny because like 10-20% of it is negative stereotypes about the south. Then the rest of it is just explaining how dating within a functional community works/worked to young chronically online people who have only ever experienced the isolated 21st century urban decay. It’s honestly kinda sad that functioning community has become so foreign to people.
I graduated from an SEC school in December and agree with you. Most people in Greek life date other people in Greek life simply because they run in the same circles, but there are still couples where only one member is in a frat or sorority. This is especially pronounced because there are many more women in sororities than guys in frats at my school. Additionally, the only engaged or married people I know are very religious and usually not part of the Greek party culture. Overall, people at my school were pretty normal. I think the social dynamics illustrated in this article may be more prominent at private schools in the South.
So much to unpack here.
1. I actually grew up in the South and even lived in Atlanta itself for a couple of years so I saw these politics play out time and time again. Mind you, there are bars in Buckhead where the manager will not hire you as a bartender if you didn't go to an SEC school.
2. Yes but the pudgy guy would be invisible or get no play in a major city. A lot of times, he is being assisted by his Greek Letters.
3. If you go for Southern Belles in Atlanta or Dallas, yes, you will be turned down if you were not a part of their tribe. It is just how it works. Try talking to some girls in a college town at fratty bars, you will get into actual fights for this.
4. Getting married is living a different life but yeah, it is the end of the fun party life no doubt. People down south get married sooner.
5. Alumni that come from certain frats hire college students from said frats. Some of the nepotism is bad.
How long ago did you live in Atlanta? I would have said this was accurate 10-15 years ago. Now it’s very out of date (down to the Buckhead reference, which is no longer a bar district).
Really? What is the scene like now?
I’m not sure when you were last there, but the Buckhead bar area was literally leveled and replaced with a luxury shopping development maybe ten years ago. So there is no scene unless you count rich moms hosting baby showers at Le Biilboquet.
Did it all go to Virginia Highlands?
Friend, Virginia-Highland has been a neighborhood for rich but liberal law firm partners for 15 years. I have to ask again when you actually lived here because your impressions and references are…not current.
Very weird article. Good looking women are only in sororities? Huh. I did not know that. It might very well be frat boys marry sorority girls more often than chance. But this is a small part of humanity.
This explains an absolute ton to me. I mean I suspected a lot of this but this helps tie it together. My family background is from thus culture but as a military brat I grew up outside it. When I went to college, even joining the most borderline fraternity on campus late because a friend sold me on it, (the Greek Council would no joke forget to invite us to meetings because they forgot we were there), made a massive difference in my ability to meet women and my social life in general.
Even before college as well as during, most, though not all, of my social and dating success was outside these circles, transplants from Not-The-South and foreigners, even when foreign just meant Canadian.
Same here, I joined a mid-tier fraternity which was not an option for most guys who are not White. It was an above average house. My social life really took off as a result.
This resonates. I’m from the North. Went to an Alabama-Ole Miss game in 2015. Got sucker-punched outside the Innisfree Irish Pub in Tuscaloosa in the early morning hours of September 19th. Fell on the back of my head on concrete and left for dead. Suffered a subdural hematoma. Hospitalized for a month. Innisfree claimed its cameras showed nothing. I’ve always assumed I chatted up some undergrad at the bar and somebody took my number. I’m fully recovered. And glad as hell I’m not married to a southern belle.
WHOA what the heck man, I hope you are okay now and I am glad you survived. Yes, be quite careful around SEC fans for schools with low admission standards. A lot of them are just drunk violent people who will attack. LSU and Alabama produce the worst. Thank God the Tide are now washed up.
I lived in Birmingham and I totally agree - do not even try to break into a profession or professional circles there, you cannot do it, and it will eat years of your life. However, I'm from Dallas and outside of the SMU/Highland Park silliness bubble I do not think the city is that way overall!
I had the same exact experience growing up in the south myself. If you are not in it from birth, forget it. I think Dallas may be changing these days though. I hear the city is getting quite diverse these days.
Yeah, I think that's the difference between Dallas and an insular southeastern city like Birmingham; Dallas' population has been booming since the 70s, whereas no one (at least no one with any sense, which excludes me) moves to the 'Ham. There are so many different Dallases and a lot of ways to make bank, Birmingham has few industries and reserves entry level positions in biglaw and banking for her own sons.
I am curious to learn more about Dallas. I have heard that it can be cliquey but I am going to check it out at some point for a week and give my report.
Interesting makes sense, I suspect this was how most of life was maybe a hundred years ago. It’s why PUA etc weren’t all that popular then, cause it didn’t matter, you wouldn’t get that girl anyway.
I think life in agricultural societies was this way but in big cities, not so much
This post is completely biased bullshit
The ones who liked it do not think so, it is my best post yet. Traffic on it is insane.
It’s not entirely wrong. It’s just a youngish millennial from an urban area with zero community that destroys social ties and breeds isolationism struggling to understand community and social ties.
Physical beauty or handsomeness is entirely overrated. Love someone who you can spend time with…alone…no internet or distractions. Remember; people have disfiguring accidents every day. Better hope your love is stronger than chiseled abs or D-cups*.
*Breast cancer is horrible. Do you really want a partner who abandons you when you need them?
Nah, I think it is key man
100%. Went to school in the South and as an outsider I found it baffling. But it does allow the upper levels of society to preserve their power - and keep the carpetbaggers out.
Yeah but at the same time, the world is changing and that lifestyle is not compatible with it. Women will realize they can do a lot better and act accordingly.
Merit wins ultimately, they are only delaying the inevitable
Them and the Europeans
Exactly! Truth is it’s a very old school European attitude - where family ties are more important than merit. The US outperformed Europe for 200 years by emphasizing merit over family.
Yeah and now, slowly, American and foreign men will start to outperform Europe in dating. Will not be shocked if Western Europe ends up being a Passport Bro destination in the future.
I think the example picture in the post is not good. That couple looks completely fine.
Eh, she is way outta his league
Not just the SEC. You have described the social scene at most large state universities in the Midwest as well, though the post-college effects are probably not as stultifying as they are in the South.
Far less severe in the Midwest though. I think there, people are more welcoming of outsiders.
Can confirm as someone from the south that went to a BIG10 school and always felt welcomed even within the deep midwestern suburb ties. I had a cousin who went from the north to a southern school and had a hard time getting into frats since most bids are based on connections and given out before the school year even started.
Yeah, bids for some frats are based on ethnicity, what zip code you are from, and forbid "yankees" even if the guy is white.
Funny how outsiders always want in and screaming if they don’t get it. Seems like people from broke communities would be best placed to crest their own instead.
It$ literally ju$t money, old money.
Somewhat
Literally. Just. Money.
This is just like the Ivies people just hate the South
What does SEC stand for?
We have no frats in Australia but the further you from larger urban areas the more ugly man / hot woman pairings seem to occur. Its definitely impacted by population density and economics
South Eastern Conference. It’s the sports (particularly football) conference schools in the South are in
Thank you!
You’re welcome. I forgot you actually answered this question in the article itself until I read it again so happy to provide back up.
No I actually editted the article to fix it
Oh lol nvm then haha
it strikes me that modern urban core norms around courtship and dating are anomalous to how human beings operate and what you’re describing is much closer to how its literally been for all of human history. in the anonymity of a metropolis, externally verifiable things carry much more weight (looks, job, etc). its hard to forget that this is not the default, because the internet has created a dispersed metropolis that allows people to exist within its framework as opposed to the physical reality of their actual surroundings and the accompanying norms and social structures that you’d have to adhere to (i.e. the alt girl who lives in shreveport louisiana who has a bunch of friends on a discord server and is an outsider at school). good article though i enjoyed reading and look forward to reading your other work
I appreciate the kind words. I think it is just that the urban centers you speak of are predicting the future and marching along that tune with dating. Meanwhile, the SEC Couples meme is a remnant of the past that may soon be gone.
Just because humans operated in a certain way, does not mean they will operate that way forever.
Cheering the destruction of a community isn’t something to cheer about.
Thrusting everyone into chasing the best looking Richest men for the hottest women will not be some dating utopia. Everyone hates NYC dating. It’s so materialistic and difficult with everyone seeking the next best thing.
You know, I thought about my comment and think you have a point. Stay tuned for my follow up.
I don’t like SEC frats driving hiring but is it so different from Ivy hiring?
The hot babe “marrying down” sounds like envy, like the Chads are mad that theStacey’s aren’t choosing them. BThere’s something to be said about marrying within a community that shares your values, upbringing, culture and mores. If anything, we should be encouraging more of these community based dating and marriage models.
The SEC reminds me of ethnic models. and religious based dating. People find them offensive and exclusive but every single model. Is exclusive, absent forced random marriages.
Arent you indian?
where would be the good places to move than. NYC has a lot more single women than men. Seems to be more and more true of all cool places
NYC is for sure one, I am going to do a list of the top cities soon.
Can it be good for men and women at the same time
people like to think that bartending is a job anyone can get but this is really not the case in certain areas, especially if you're a guy because most bar patrons are male and they prefer to look at female bartenders. so you REALLY have to know somebody to even be considered and even then, you have to barback and bus for months on end, waiting for your shot to step behind the bar when one of the regulars finally calls in "sick" on a Monday night because they spent all weekend snorting coke and drinking and they're half dead. it's insanely clique-y. they like to make it difficult to make up for the fact that it's a job that most people can do well with very little training.
the rest of this article was news to me. very interesting stuff. kinda depressing.